گفتگو

AJ, I wanted to tell you about the sweat lodge yesterday. I got home late last night, I haven’t really spoken to you since but, since I got back. I was telling Joe all about it when I got home but I wanted to let you know about it since you had such a bad time at yours.

I wouldn’t say it was a bad time but it was not at all what I expected so I’m curious to hear what you experienced.

Well, I have to be honest, I went with a friend, my friend Kathy, and I was kind of concerned especially after Joe was talking about somebody having gotten killed in one and your experience. I was kind of anxious.

And so I went and picked her up yesterday and I started talking to her about it and I knew that she had mentioned doing sweat lodges years ago.

But I think her sweat lodges were friends getting together, just like stripping…back in her hippie days…stripping down and jumping in a teepee with some hot rocks.

Right.

There was no ceremonial part to it. So it had been so long ago she didn’t remember so I was telling her your experience and Joe’s story and I think by the time we got there she was a little anxious about it, too. So, yeah, the whole day was basically with this guy.

I had mentioned a book that I read, The Time of the Black Jaguar. It’s this guy from Peru who grew up with relatives who were actually indigenous people in the Andean mountains and he’s now living in New Mexico with a Lakota tribe.

So anyway, he was the one, he was basically like all day yesterday, he was talking like, y’know, there were teachings going on. It was him talking and then in the evening we did the sweat lodge.

And I’m thinking, too, “It’s going to be like two and a half to three hours”, which when I told you that you were like, “Oh my god, I can’t imagine being in a lodge”, like you didn’t remember, I think, how long yours had been. But yeah…I started.

My two concerns were the heat and the time of it, like the length.

And it was dark, right? Because the thing I remember being kind of intense was that you’re packed into this little lodge and that it’s just pitch black dark.

Oh yeah, yeah, it was totally dark. So when we go back, it was at this couple’s house who were hosting this guy and the lodges, there were two because there were so many people.

I was telling Joe I think there were about 21 people in mine so I’m guessing there were about that many in the second.

And so they had a second one set up. We go, it’s kind of in their backyard. We go, Kathy and I go walking back and I look at it and I was like, “Holy shit, that’s the lodge?” It was…I was expecting something I could walk into.

Yeah, yeah, I know, it’s tiny.

This was like a little igloo shape.

Yeah, right.

I told Joe, it’s like, y’know, definite…he was like, “Was it the size of our living room?” And I was like, “ No, definitely much smaller and lower.”

Mmm…

It came to about my chest. So anyway, the guy, Arkan, had said, “Anybody new, y’know, raise your…anybody who’s not done this before raise your hand.” So there were a few of us who raised our hands.

He was like, “Okay, come in mine, please.” So we went in his and he…he was explaining… Oh, first of all like we went in single-file and you get…you get down and you have to… You crawl then. Once you go in they want you to stay on all fours.

I don’t, I don’t know why. So there were two rings and I was in the back ring, so I was a little bit more insulated from the heat.

Mmm…

But he explained before it started, there’s…I don’t know what he called them, but let’s call them cycles. He said there’s basically four cycles. So he said rocks are going to be brought in.

There was a fire burning in between the two lodges. So rocks, he explained rocks would be brought in from the fire, put in the middle of our lodge, y’know, this dug out hole in the earth. And they’d be pouring water on it.

The flap, y’know, to the entrance would be brought down. It would be dark and there’d be drumming and chanting going on. So…oh let me back up. When we first got in the lodge he looked at me and he said, “Can you take your earrings out?” And I was like, “They’re kind of difficult to take out unless I’m in front of a mirror.”

Mmm…

So I was like, “Well, uh…” He was like, “Yeah, you have a lot of them don’t you?” and I said, “Yeah, I do.” And he was like, “Well, are they silver?” And I said, “Yeah, they’re silver.” And he was like, “Okay, maybe they won’t get too hot.”

Oh my gosh…

And I was like, well it would have been nice to know…and then my…and then Kathy at that point, she’s sitting next to me, she’s like, “Oh, maybe I should take off my rings?” And someone else said, “Yeah, yeah, take off all your jewelry.”

It’s like, okay, this would have been nice to know before we went in. So anyway, I didn’t take them off.

So basically there’d be a cycle of the flap going down, it’d be really dark and hot. We’d either, there’d be chanting going on and drumming. And then after, he didn’t say how long it would last, the flap would come up.

So it would be kind of a reprieve from the…the heat and more rocks brought in. And he said, “Now I can’t keep you in here.

If you want to leave, y’know, I would like for us to all stay in the whole time but if you need to leave that’s okay, but I just ask that you do it at the end of each cycle, when the flap comes up.”

So I thought of you actually, AJ, because you were telling me about…you were like, “If you get too hot, just roll out.” And I was actually on the outer edge so I could have rolled under the thing but he brought that up. He was like, “Please don’t do that.

That’s kind of an interruption.” And he mentioned doing one of these in Argentina a couple of weeks ago and somebody, something was triggered; and the guy kind of freaked out and ran over everybody to get out the flap.

Y’know, it’s dark, they’re in…they’re in the session.

Yeah.

It wasn’t during one of the breaks, so…

I can understand though, when I…when I did it, y’know, I didn’t freak out but it wasn’t comfortable.

Y’know, you’re in this tiny space. It’s dark and it gets super hot because they…they’ve got the rocks. So it’s just like being in a really intense steam room.

Yes.

But then, which is fine for me, I like steam rooms like that. But I think for some people it’s a little oppressive-feeling. And then you add in the pitch-black darkness and the tiny enclosed space, I can see where people would get freaked out.

Yeah, I can, too. I, y’know, I wasn’t comfortable. We were crammed in and I was…I don’t get claustrophobic so that wasn’t a problem for me but I was hot. But I did find each cycle didn’t last that long. I think it was maybe 15, 20 minutes and the flap would come up, cool air would come in. And so we had a nice little break. And it would stay up for about 5 minutes and then we’d start again. Each cycle though it got a little hotter. And I’d say by the end of the third cycle I was ready for…I was like, “Okay, I’m ready for this to stop.” And it did then. But the fourth one was intense. Each time, too, they’d bring in more rocks from the fire, more rocks than the last time.

Ah.

And they were pouring a lot more water on the fourth time. So I told Joe my earrings did start really burning in my ears.

Damn.

I’d taken a towel in so I held the towel up to them and it was so hot, I think just from so much steam, I was…I couldn’t really breathe.

Yeah.

Not like I was…y’know, I wasn’t hyperventilating or anything but it was…it’s a weird description.

It was difficult to breathe.

Yeah, because the air’s so heavy and hot…

Yes.

and with steam in it. Yeah, that’s kind of the feeling I had where it’s kind of… Kristin: Yeah.

it’s really, and then the closed-in feeling with all the people. Yeah, for me it was not a pleasant experience when I did it, which was many years ago.

Well, I think he described it as kind of, kind of reminds me of Reiki or any…any spiritual thing where you’re just keeping your…your, he kept saying channel, you’re keeping your body pure.

And so that your, as he was describing it, you’re just keeping yourself pure.

Yeah, well, I mean, I know scientifically…

It’s a purifying thing, yeah.

Yeah.

And when I…I have to…and so for me I knew…I went into it with a lot of expectations and I knew it was going to be difficult and so it was kind of this thing like, I’m going to get through this.

Mmm…

And we’re all in this together. There were two people who did leave early.

Mm-hm.

During…at the end of a cycle, but for me it was like, it was just like, “I’m going to persevere through this.” And then at the end when we came out it felt great.

Mmm…

I felt so alive and so light and just like really clear-minded.

Mm-hm.

Yeah, it was…I would do one again.

Well, nice. Yeah, I think that the…I probably would enjoy it more if it, if it wasn’t so crowded with people. Like, you know me, I don’t like crowds, so…

Yeah.

That’s the part that I think that, more than the heat or even the darkness, for me it was just the too many people in a tiny space…

Yeah.

I just wasn’t comfortable being all, y’know, elbow to elbow, crushed in with them.

Yeah.

That’s the part that made me just kind of…I don’t like this.

there being a fear. Because it’s like, it’s pitch black dark…

Yeah.

when they put that down, too. You can’t see anything in front of you.

Yeah.

It’s very disorienting.

Exactly.

So I could imagine that with claustrophobia, and the heat. It does something. I could imagine somebody being triggered and maybe like wanting…

Get me out of here!

escape, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, but overall, it was a really good experience. And I think it’s kind of good that I went in with a lot of expectations. I think that helped, instead of not knowing.

You were ready for that intense experience.

I was ready. And then it ended up not even going two and a half, three hours.

Oh, yeah.

It also…I thought it was going to be the entire…I didn’t realize there would be kind of a break between these.

Yeah, that’s nice.

Where the flap would come up and you’d have the air coming in.

Mmm.

So that was nice, too. I thought it was just going to be…we’d be in there the whole entire time straight through.

Wow.

So…